Fate and Awakening

[Magpie]

@Robert Ramsay said that all possible outcomes are predetermined. That was in a "are you trying to win a lottery thread". Took some time to digest that and at the same time I was thinking about the nauthiz rune, which is the rune of compulsion of fate.

Neo-pagan and Hindu/Buddhist currents are most familiar to me. There seems to be a fundamental difference or a fundamental misunderstanding - I want you to chip in and tell me what you think that is. Germanic neo-paganism says fate is predetermined and fighting against it is futile and harmful. That is aligned with the true self. Being the true you, you go with the current and that is the best option. But in Buddhism, you can awaken and then all conditioning goes.

So if I was meant to be a farmer and I strive to be a doctor, the Germanic side says it is wrong. But on the Buddhist side, why would you want to stay bound to samsaric fate?

So either those two systems are incompatible or I am misinterpreting awakening in relation to fate.

 

[moonbow]

As far as I am concerned, the more you are awakened, the more you realize that you write and rewrite your own fate, and that you can direct your Desire and Will to change your fate, destiny and your reality to whatever you WILL it to be, as your Will becomes Gods Will. I would not care so much what neo paganism or buddhism tries to brainwash you with, but instead rely on your own experiences and enlightenment on your own path of spiritual cultivation and awakening. Your true self is not slave to fate but is instead the master over it.

 

[Luciana cb]

Na minha opinião, quanto mais você desperta, mais percebe que escreve e reescreve o seu próprio destino e que pode direcionar seu Desejo e Vontade para mudar seu destino, sua realidade e tudo o que você DESEJA que seja, pois sua Vontade se torna a Vontade de Deus. Eu não me importaria tanto com o que o neopaganismo ou o budismo tentam lhe impor, mas sim confiaria em suas próprias experiências e iluminação em seu próprio caminho de cultivo e despertar espiritual. Seu verdadeiro eu não é escravo do destino, mas sim o mestre sobre ele.

Concordo contigo! — mas não como fantasia de controle absoluto.


O que desperta não é alguém que “faz tudo o que quer”.
É alguém que já não se move por aquilo que não vê.


Quando a vontade deixa de ser reflexo… ela se torna eixo.


E nesse ponto, o destino não desaparece — ele se curva à presença que consegue sustentá-lo. ( estou em constante aprendizado e tenho visto resultados compreendendo essa maxima!)


Não me interessa ser escrava do destino.


Mas também não confunda poder com delírio.

Interesso-me por algo mais concreto para mim:
ter uma vontade que não reage
ter uma consciência que não é arrastada —
ser um centro que permanece… mesmo quando tudo se move.

 

[HoldAll]

Concordo contigo! — mas não como fantasia de controle absoluto.

Please write exclusively in English here, it's the Forum Rules. If you feel that your English is insufficient, use this free online translator:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Persistent failure to use English will result in an official Warning and may ultimately get you banned.

 

[Magpie]

As far as I am concerned, the more you are awakened, the more you realize that you write and rewrite your own fate, and that you can direct your Desire and Will to change your fate, destiny and your reality to whatever you WILL it to be, as your Will becomes Gods Will. I would not care so much what neo paganism or buddhism tries to brainwash you with, but instead rely on your own experiences and enlightenment on your own path of spiritual cultivation and awakening. Your true self is not slave to fate but is instead the master over it.

Own experience is always the golden source of truth. You see the contradiction between what people pain true self as and what you say? True self is supposed to be a fairly fixed true core of your being. So by definition it is fixed. You are saying that having joined up with it, you can change it?

 

[moonbow]

Own experience is always the golden source of truth. You see the contradiction between what people pain true self as and what you say? True self is supposed to be a fairly fixed true core of your being. So by definition it is fixed. You are saying that having joined up with it, you can change it?

Yes, the true self is indeed the most fixed core of your being. In my understanding there is no need to change the true self and also it's not possible to change it as it's just Spirit. Your "I" consciousness. Apart from your pure Spirit, the rest can be changed. Anything and everything, which also includes whatever fate life may have written up for you. Fate concerns only your human character, or soul at best. Once your Spirit and your Will wake up, they take control. In a sense I agree with the buddhist explanation. You don't stay bound to samsaric fate once you start waking up. Your true self is above and beyond that.

 

[Magpie]

Yes, the true self is indeed the most fixed core of your being. In my understanding there is no need to change the true self and also it's not possible to change it as it's just Spirit. Your "I" consciousness. Apart from your pure Spirit, the rest can be changed. Anything and everything, which also includes whatever fate life may have written up for you. Fate concerns only your human character, or soul at best. Once your Spirit and your Will wake up, they take control. In a sense I agree with the buddhist explanation. You don't stay bound to samsaric fate once you start waking up. Your true self is above and beyond that.

That is an important, CRITICAL, distinction. Spirit is part of the un-conditioned, soul is conditioned. So the latter can be changed. And you say true self it the spirit - but the un-conditioned would not have any specific properties, right? So then the whole idea of having a unique true self is baseless.

The most likely explanation is that what people usually mean while talking about true self is the most base part of the soul and it is still malleable. And also, that is probably a matter that cannot really be properly discussed given limitations of language. Probably only possible to express via symbols and perceptible only through direct experience.

 

[moonbow]

That is an important, CRITICAL, distinction. Spirit is part of the un-conditioned, soul is conditioned. So the latter can be changed. And you say true self it the spirit - but the un-conditioned would not have any specific properties, right? So then the whole idea of having a unique true self is baseless.

The most likely explanation is that what people usually mean while talking about true self is the most base part of the soul and it is still malleable. And also, that is probably a matter that cannot really be properly discussed given limitations of language. Probably only possible to express via symbols and perceptible only through direct experience.

All I can add is this: I personally feel like it is very well possible to become a doctor if your fate otherwise would have you a farmer. This is where your Will and Spirit comes into play. Now you might argue that maybe becoming a doctor was your true fate all along, and all you did was fulfill your fate and it's in fact impossible to go against your fate or your "true self". You might be right and I wouldn't know what to answer to this because I simply don't know.
But for my worldview it is enough to know that I can change whatever fate I don't like or don't accept, like having to be a farmer instead of doctor or a more interesting example a human instead of vampire. There might be a guy whose fate is clearly to be a "good guy normal human" with a nice job and family but he really wants to be a vampire. Everyone expects him to be a normal guy and even reality seems 100% laid out to be like this, it seems like fate. Yet he rebels and desires and cultivates until his obsession turns into WILL and even the whole cosmos says "alright, if you want it so badly then so shall it be!" All his reality changes and all the people don't expect of him to be a normal guy anymore. He gets cut off from his ancestors, from humanity at large and from his old karma. And then he becomes a vampire. We can say he effectively changed his fate. This kind of transformation is surely more violent and extreme than becoming a doctor instead of a farmer but it's still possible.
You might say it was his true fate to rebel and become a vampire all along, and if it wasn't his true self and true fate he wouldn't be able to do it. Maybe. But in my oppinion for all purposes it is enough to accept that you can in fact become a vampire. Or an immortal. Or get the rare videogame that seems impossible to get but you really want to play. That's what matters to me now and the rest is simply beyond me.

 

[Magpie]

yeah makes sense. I read karma as a cluster of all the causes that lead to where we are. So if there is enough directed will and enough effort to inject new "causes" over time, the fate, the karmic outcome, changes...